Flame of the West-Caldara-Gandalf-Mono-Spirit

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Caldara Gandalf Combo-Mono-Spirit 0 0 0 1.0
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LEGOlas 128

Deck designed for Flame of the West. Celebrían's Stone, Blood of Numenor, Banner of Elendil ,and Ring of Barahir all go on Aragorn. Favor of the Lady can go on Aragorn or Eowyn. Gandalf recieves unexpected courage, Narya, his staff, and his pipe. Discard Prince Imrahil and either Damrod or a Northern Tracker using Eoywn's ability to then discard Caldara and put them into play. Commit the trackers to the quest and ready them using Gandalf with Narya to attack. Defend with Gandalf or Aragorn and retrieve Caldara with Fortune of Fate for extra resources.

14 comments

Dec 06, 2021 LEGOlas 128

Discard Caldara while buying a card with Gandalf to maximize Caldara's ability

Dec 06, 2021 Alonewolf87 1908

What do you mean by "discard Caldare while buying a card with Gandalf"? You can't trigger an Action inside another Action (or Response)?

Dec 06, 2021 Alonewolf87 1908

Also with this lineup you really want to have Prince Imrahil in play before discarding Caldara, otherwise by discarding her you will bring back only 1 ally (Aragorn with Celebrian's Stone doesn't count since it's not a "printed resource icon")

Dec 06, 2021 LEGOlas 128

Gandalf's ability is not an action; it is a passive effect. To my knowledge, you can trigger an action while passively using another effect. Is that incorrect?

Dec 06, 2021 LEGOlas 128

I understand that the stone does not count, but I believe Gandalf still does for the aforementioned reason.

Dec 06, 2021 Alonewolf87 1908

Yes it's a passive effect, but the sphere granting part of it is connected to you playing a card, it's not always active. If you are playing a card from the top of your deck you are taking an Action or a Response to play it.

Dec 06, 2021 LEGOlas 128

I understand its not always active but it is not labelled as an Action or Response. Consequently, isn't it allowed during a different action.

Dec 06, 2021 Mythik 202

There isn't an action window within the process for playing a card, you need to completely resolve the effect of the card being played before being able to trigger any actions. For example: if you play Daeron's Runes and draw a Deep Knowledge, you can't play the Deep Knowledge before you discard the card as required by the Runes.

It's the same principle with Gandalf and Caldara - while Gandalf has the spirit icon playing a card, Caldara's action cannot be triggered.

There are some exceptions, but they are very niche - if a card effect initiates an enemy attack using a forced effect, then you'd interrupt the card play process to resolve the attack, and all attacks have action windows by default.

Dec 07, 2021 LEGOlas 128

@Mythik I fully agree with you regarding Daeron's Runes and Deep Knowledge, as they are both have "Action:" printed on them and "Action:" effects cannot be activated during another. However, Gandalf's text does not say "Action:" Consequently, I believe you trigger other actions during it. I know this action is picky and not the desired intent, however, the wording does not mean they have to be separate, as passive effects can occur during other actions.

Dec 07, 2021 Alonewolf87 1908

You still have to be playing the card on top of your deck for that part of Gandalf's effect to trigger, and it's valid only while playing that card. And you cannot interrupt the playing of a card with another Action or Response. But I think we made that point enough already, you can play it as you prefer even if we think it doesn't work that way rules-wise.

Dec 07, 2021 LEGOlas 128

You have made it clear, I am just stuck on wording, thank you for the well thought out responses.

Dec 07, 2021 LEGOlas 128

If anyone would be kind enough to show me precisely where the rulebook states you cannot trigger an "Action:" ability during a triggered constant ability, it would be greatly appreciated. I have been looking through much of the rulebook and cannot find anything regarding simultaneous "Action:" abilities and non-"Action: abilities".

Dec 08, 2021 doomguard 1923

i think the logic is other: the process of playing a card has no time. so you cannot do anything other while playing a card, than playing that card, it takes no measurable time or other, it has no window if the bought card does not create one. (attaching or placing in your staging create no window it has no game-measurable time)

but i think this is not exactly defined in the rules, and the thoughtprocess, take an action in the planningphase that is green and is meant you can take actions during whole phase and withing playing a card is understandable, but i have met no one who plays it this way. (and even if it is not exactly forbidden in the rules, if nobody plays it this way, you can play alone or have to adapt)

Dec 08, 2021 LEGOlas 128

Ok, that makes sense. I understand the intent.