3 wandering istari,fellowship

doomguard 687


gandalf choose Strider, radagast a Wizard Pipe for gandalf and saruman takes Song of Kings.

try to play as much Resourceful and Timely Aid as possible as long you where in secrecy. gandalf should combine it with the pipe because the ratio of allies is not as high as in the other decks.

  • the radagastdeck have to choose if it plays a timely aid or one of the tactic-events per round.

  • with the pipe from start, the gandalfdeck has many options and can optimize the playing of the spherecards and timely aid

  • saruman should try to play a doomed event every round, optimally after gaining his Saruman's Staff and at best start with Deep Knowledge be aware, that Defiant Challenge readies 4 characters at all (saruman by default and then each player 1 character). Close Call can be played for 0 and is then a free readying for saruman

  • as soon as a Eagles of the Misty Mountains is out, let Wilyador go as often as possible


Apr 10, 2021 DEER PARK 167

Like it but is grey wandering saruman and grey wandering radagast just support decks to gandyboy ?

Apr 10, 2021 doomguard 687

don#t think so. but gandalf hae most use of 1-cost-attachements. sruman and radagast hae both readying-mechanics on their character (doomed-evvent, saruman, playing a creature, radagast) so, strider is the obvious chice for gandalf. so eerybody can quest for free. then, as neutral hero, gandalf also benefits the most of a song. so it comes optimal, give him 2 of the 3 attachements.

so, they will more or less have their roles: radagast will take the heaviest enemies,when a big eagle stand (and their, gandalf could be the supporter, with narya), the main questpower will come from saruman, he has the most allies, and gandalf will take care of the locations and some test of will.

i think all are nearly as important as the others. with shadowfax and more actions, Gandalf is more a joker, and may have more flexible uses, but the core-parts (questing and fighting) are equally important.

Apr 10, 2021 doomguard 687

replace pipe for song on gandalfs part ;)

saruman get the song, and leadership +lore has the most potential to get fast allies on the table.

Apr 10, 2021 Emmental 198

I don't think you can play Close Call for 0, because it won't directly change the game state.

Apr 10, 2021 doomguard 687

you can use To the Sea, to the Sea! if you play an ally or nor, or overdiscard at will. that seems to "change the gaming state" why no Close Call for 0? the "change" is the same, you discard a card. and the state is changing, saruman refresh.

the "change game stat" is very unprecise to me. sometime it counts where you do not think it does, sometimes not. i sometimes cannot see the logic in that "change" or not i consider every case independent, and if caleb or errata/rulesspecification say it does not work, it work for me.

and if a card says "x" then x can be 0, that is a fact.

Apr 11, 2021 Seastan 29308

@doomguard To the Sea does change the game state as it creates a passive effect. Whether or not you make use of it is not relevant.

Apr 11, 2021 Seastan 29308

But apart from the game state issue, Close Call also uses the word "cancel". If X is 0 the you cannot fulfill the effect since there is nothing to cancel.

Apr 11, 2021 doomguard 687

why do u not can cancel 0? mathematically spoken 0 is the neutral element of cancelling but you can use the funktion "cancel" on it. it does not have the prasing "do x to do y" you just can do x and why should not be 0?

i could understand a different point: doomed 0 is not defined. there is doomed without a number (then the number is invisible 1)

and why is readying saruman no game state?

so or so, if one at my table dont like the use of close call for 0, i would replace it with other doomed cards.

Apr 11, 2021 Seastan 29308

Because by cancelling 0, you still end up with 0. So it has not been cancelled. It is therefore impossible to cancel.

Do you believe you can play Close Call at any moment? Because your heroes are constantly taking 0 damage. This feels very strange to me.

As for Saruman changing the game state when readying: when examining whether or not you will change the game state with a card you are not supposed to include other effects that might trigger off that card. Otherwise there would be no point in the ruling because nobody would want to perform such actions.

Apr 11, 2021 doomguard 687

discarding a card for readying is for special characters nothing uncommen, ask Glorfindel. i can understand your point of view, but you are not my instance for rules deciding. that is only caleb or the people, that plays with me. and even at caleb, i tend to take not every somewhere written word as given. as long as it is not is something official pdf (faq, rulesreference) it is open to discuss.

Apr 11, 2021 Seastan 29308

@doomguard If you want an official source for the ruling, it's on page 2 of the rules reference:

A card ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state. This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or any other ability interactions.

Saruman readying would fall under "consequences of the cost payment" which it says to ignore when determining whether it will affect the game state.

Apr 11, 2021 askelad 428

that's a very nice fellowship, both thematically, mechanically and i'm guessing gameplay-wise!

thanks emmental, doomguard, and seastan for making me understand a rule i didn't even remember existed. According to the Rules you could not play Close Call for 0. You could house rule it but it would make Close Call bloody strong, as with saruman it can serve both as Close Call and an instant Cram

is the Song of Kings on saruman just for faramir really necessary? Timely Aid can be played during the planning phase anyway, and it seems to me Song of Travel on gandalf would be far more important since you cannot play A Test of Will without it (you could swap Faramir with one of gandalf's allies since gandalf can play him from the top of the deck with the pipe, and Faramir would still be able to target Saruman for maximum value)

in the same vein, The Storm Comes seems vastly underused: since radagast can play creatures from any sphere, it is only relevant for playing 1 of faramir, 1 of Arwen Undómiel, and for gandalf playing one of his 7 allies, from hand, having already played something else this planning phase, which he can do from the top with pipe.

by swapping faramir and fetching song of travel for gandalf, that problem would be almost entirely solved

Apr 11, 2021 pconnors 205

I did not realize the attachment from Grey Wanderer could go to someone other than your hero. I love the theme of Gandalf because my most useful with Strider, Radagast helping out Gandalf at his detriment, and Saruman declaring himself a king.

Apr 12, 2021 doomguard 687

@askeladthe song is good at saruman. i explain:

with song, he can play a timely id if it is in hand, if not, he has darons runes, drinking song, deep knowledge and word of command to get one (or 2?). THEN he can play it the same round,that is only possible with the song. means, the song spares time and he can pay for faramir (wich can be taken by word of command, so not so rarely) and if the cards give it, after 1. timely aid he can play drinking song or other lorecards to hope to find another one.

at the sarumandeck i will perhaps add A Very Good Tale that fastens it up more and makes the song more needed. i put faramir to saruman, because of the tasks, the decks have, and saruman is the mainquester with his allies.

and, IF no one else need the steward, the sarumandeck is able to play it.

the sidequests are not in 1.place because of their effect, they are primarely for Halfling Bounder and Thalion. the extracard or the storm comes are nice sideeffects :)

@seastan, is there defined, whar gamastate exactly is?

Apr 12, 2021 doomguard 687

sorry for my spelling, my pc grow old (specially the keys, laptop....)
belay the "drinking song" at saruman, but the others (runes, deep knowledge and word of command) should be enough. if not, drinking song would be the next state (perhaps for the 2 close calls) depends on testing.

Apr 12, 2021 Seastan 29308

@doomguard The "game state" is is simply the state that the game is in. It would be nice if it was more explicitly defined, but that's all we have. Immediately after playing Close Call for 0, (before any possible responses) the only thing that has changed is that Close Call is in the discard pile. Since this is a consequence of the cost payment, if does not could toward a change in the game state, so playing Close Call for 0 is not a legal move.

To use a similar example from before the Boromir errata: people asked if you could trigger Boromir 10 times at the very start of the game so that you can start the game in valour. However, this was not allowed, as Boromir would not be readying, so the only change to the game state was your threat, which was the cost payment.

Another similar ruling regarding Elven-king: it can't be used if your hero is already ready, as the only game state change is the ally returning to your hand and the exhaustion of Elven-king, which are both part of the cost payment.

Apr 12, 2021 Emmental 198

I think Radagast needs more a song than Saruman, a Song of Battle for his 6 would be nice. And you could include one copy of Support of the Eagles in the Gandalf deck (maybe in side for boss ennemies).

Narya already gives a resource icon, i don't think you need 3 song of kings on top of it. Also it would probably be better to move Faramir to the Gandalf deck than.

But i am inclined for more changes, removing many allies from the Saruman deck, and instead picking some attachment from the other decks + 3 Master of the Forge. Expert Treasure-hunter could find a place with those Wizard pipes.

Nice idea overall, i'm tempted to create a fellowship with grey wanderer Frodo and Sam and starting with Friend of Friends^^

Apr 12, 2021 askelad 428

@doomguard thanks i understand better the choice now.

Apr 12, 2021 doomguard 687

@emmental, the songs in gandalfs deck are not only for gandalf.

@saruman, you can decide after your startinghand, which attachement you want. if you have timely aid and faramir or gildor in startinghand, then choose the pipe, not the song, you are flexible. specially if gandalf draws a song of kings. the 3 decks should talk a lot to optimize each other, just from the start.

@radagast a support of the eagles is to expensive and to much effort. you need 4 resourses (and 2 cards), that could be eagles. support from the eagles cannot be discounted by the staff. my experience with radagast-eagle: the time a big eagle stands mostly there is enough other stuff you need not the support of the eagles

radagast can only play 1 of the 9 events per round, but thats o.k. perhaps he gains a song of kings from gandalf, then its more flexibility, but playing 1 of the 9 per turn is o.k.

@Seastanit is a pity that "gamestate" or "boardstate" is not defined better. i would think a card on that you can trigger reactions would more change "something" as creating a passive ability,that no one use.... i found that rule overall not very precise and cannot imagine a situation where it is really needed. increase thread with boromir or use close call for 0 is nothing, that is op. you can that things do with other cards, that is legal (cram for close call and Pillars of the Kings for boromir (the pillars give you additional cards on top) so i see no need for that rule ny examples where it really matters?

Apr 12, 2021 Seastan 29308

@doomguard Not every rule exists to prevent OP combos. But right now I am not trying to defend the rule or guess at the intention. I'm just tying to explain it. You are totally free to ignore it and any other rules you like, as it is a co-op game. But there are others here that might be more strict with their rules adherence and might appreciate knowing whether a suggested interaction is legal or not.

Apr 13, 2021 doomguard 687

kk thx for the explains and rules -quote.