The Riddle-game · RingsDB

The Riddle-game presents an intriguing gamble. You get to start the game with a powerful Guarded attachment for free. However, you also start engaged with Hungry Creature. While it cannot attack or interact with any other cards on the table, you do have to riddle with it -- and if you lose three times, bye bye to your hero and the attachment. However, if you win three times -- which is doable with planning -- the Hungry Creature goes away. So, how bad is the Hungry Creature? And how good are the potential Guarded attachments you can start with?

First, Hungry Creature. Here's its text, since it's not on RingsDB:

Forced: When Hungry Creature is dealt a shadow card, look at it and note its . The engaged player may discard a card from their hand with a matching printed cost to place 1 progress token on The Riddle-game. Otherwise, place 1 damage token on The Riddle-game.

The riddle-game is played by discarding cards. So even if you win, you'll have to discard at least three cards (two with a Hobbit), and possibly up to 5. If you lose, of course, then you've lost the hero and likely will lose the scenario barring an explosive start. But you can plan to win. Starting with a Hobbit is handy, though limiting. Other than that, your best bet is to stack a bunch of zero-cost cards, since every Treachery in the encounter deck has 0 threat – so you’ll be able to win more often than not simply by having a 0-cost card in your hand. Have a good selection of 1, 2, and 3-cost cards around as backup and you’ll usually be able to win. There are many good 0-cost options in every sphere that are very splashable and will not go to waste. In Leadership you’ve got, for example, commonly played cards such as We Are Not Idle, Captain's Wisdom, Dúnedain Remedy, A Very Good Tale, Legacy of Númenor, and Cram. Lore has staples like Daeron's Runes, Ioreth, Deep Knowledge, and Woodmen's Clearing. Spirit is more lacking, but still has Elrond's Counsell and Double Back, plus some more conditional 0-cost cards like Galion or Spare Hood and Cloak. Tactics has great options like Round Shield, Foe-hammer, and Dúnedain Hunter, plus some more conditional options. And even Neutral brings some useful 0-costs, like A Good Harvest, Good Meal, The Shirefolk, The Seeing-stone, and Well-Equipped. You can also run Shadow of the Past in any deck to let you stack an encounter card with the right for what you’ve got in your hand.

Assuming you’ve planned ahead, you know you have a good chance of winning the riddle-game. However, it will slow you down in the process as you’ll have to discard a card every round until you win. This drawback does affect the calculus of which Guarded attachments are the best to use – those that give you extra card draw obviously offset the cost the most, while giving you a better chance to have the right answer to the Hungry Creature’s riddle in hand. But let’s take each of the possible Guarded attachments in turn and consider their merits.

Stone of Elostirion: Top contender for best all-around starting attachment. Can go on any hero you want, and +2 willpower and +1 card draw are always welcome to get you out of the gate quickly, and importantly will always be useful first turn.

The Arkenstone: Another top contender. Can also go on any hero, and it starts you off at +3 willpower first turn. It works well with Ioreth and Galion plus other cheap uniques like Wilyador and Henamarth Riversong. With a well-constructed deck, this attachment can help you easily get on top of any scenario where strong early questing is needed. Plus, it grows with time so will still be relevant mid and late game.

Necklace of Girion: Like the Stone, can go on any hero and gets you a +2 willpower boost from turn 1. I rate an extra resource lower than an extra card, but for a Lore-heavy deck this could be the better option over the Stone.

Ring of Thrór: Tied with the Necklace for third place. While it’s limited to a Dwarf hero, the first turn readying combined with the ability to spam a high-cost attachment into play every turn can easily offset the risk and lost cards from Hungry Creature. Best targets are probably Gimli, with his well-rounded stats and 2 willpower, or Thorin for his 3 willpower and 3 attack. Plus dwarves have very handy 0-cost cards like Khazad Khazad, Well-equipped, and Unlikely Friendship (if you’re running an elf hero as well).

Elendilmir: This is the wild card for me. It’s obviously limited in terms of who it could work with. I wouldn’t use it if you’re planning to play it on Aragorn, but if you want to put it on Galadriel or Beravor, then I could see it being very powerful so long as you’ve got early readying potential.

Four of the Guarded attachments are Weapons: Glamdring, Orcrist, Sting, and Durin's Axe. All these are really only useful for attacking (and defending with Sting). So you’re not guaranteed to get use out of them first turn, except in certain scenarios where an enemy starts in play. I don’t see as much justification to use any of these with The Riddle-Game, with the possible exception of Glamdring with a hero like Éomer or Haldir of Lórien who want to be knocking out enemies in staging as soon as possible. The extra card(s) from Glamdring can, in the right scenario, offset the cost of the Riddle-Game. All other weapons are likely not worth it.

Last is the Mithril Shirt. I suppose there are some very specific scenarios where having the Shirt from turn 1 could save the day – maybe in a Bree deck against the right encounter deck – but 99% of the time this would be an utter waste.

3/5/24

kjeld 664

i do not like it and count it imbalanced. you can add it to every deck that has not a contract and the flaws of the contract are not so hard to play around and it gives a really hard buff from the start. the baseconcept is not bad, but it should be done more challenging e.g. the riddled hero is exhausted as long taking part of the riddle (and cannot be readied), or only for hobbits/secrecy decks...... choosing a treasure that let you draw cards nearly negate the "punishment" of the contract. another point seems unclear. following the standartrules, you have an enemy engaged, so it should trigger engaged in addition to have an enemy angaged, what can be beneficial for dunedains. was that intentional? — doomguard 2156 3/6/24

Yeah this contract is indeed quite beneficial for Dunedain decks. Let's say that one of the "hidden" costs of this contract is that it forces your deckbuilding towards certain deck cost distributions to maximize the chances to win The Riddle-game (so for example many 0 cost cards). — Alonewolf87 2396 3/6/24

add a few cost 0 cards is not really restricting, specially if u get carddraw for it... there are many good cost 0 cards in the game. i suggest you redesign this contract. — doomguard 2156 3/6/24

And I respectfully suggest you test it a bit, see if the benefits really so easily surpass the costs and limitations, before saying that it needs to be redesigned. — Alonewolf87 2396 3/6/24

srry wrong place? should be here: if i understand the posts of kaspatou right, it was not big of a problem and that would fit with my thoughts. and i see no reason to buff all decks that have no contract e.g. gandalf-elrond-vilya (and gandalf have even less problems achieving the cards needed for the riddles) i would further say, at about 50% of my decks i could add it without further adjustment (i mostly play with some cost 0 cards and carddraw)) to buff most decks in this simple way is not what i call interesting deckbuilding — doomguard 2156 3/6/24

Well if half of your deck already have at least 8-10 0 cost cards and a good card draw engine then I guess it would be really helpful for you yes. Personally I would need to revise many of my decks (mainly on card cost distribution) to have a decent chance of winning The Riddle-game. I am basically simply saying to not rely too much on theorybuilding, but actually playing it say for 10 games or so to see how it actually goes in the game. During playtest it was not so easy to accomodate the requirements for a decent shot at winning The Riddle-game. Of course you can plan to basically give it up and just reap the benefits, that's a solid option too if you deckbuild for it. — Alonewolf87 2396 3/6/24

i do not know what u want to test if the result is clear (have enough 0-cost cards and there is no problem). and if many of your decks have not much 0-cost cards and/or enough drwing, they might be not good decks overall ;) (so testing with them perhaps not soo worthy) as the contract stand, i might not take a further look at decks with this contract, its like cheating for me and not really creative. and its a shame, i like the baseidea, but the restrictions are by far to small in comparison what it gives you for free from the start. this btw. "should" have been clear regarding the restrictions of other contracts Alep made (into the west with its same number of equal cost cards is very much more restricting or "to the end" with its +8 startingthread i rate the benefits of these 3 contracts as nearly equal, but the restrictions are not. i wonder why no one has seen it before. — doomguard 2156 3/7/24

well as I said before this basically either forces you to run a certain card cost distribution in your deck (like Into the West) but also wants to allow other approaches. Maybe don't think that we did not see the upsides and implications of this card, there was intensive playtest behind it which gave different results than what a quick look and some theorycrafting are telling you. There is a good chance that your impression might be wrong. But I guess no matter what I say you will not be convinced so I once again urge you to actually play it and I will close it there from me. — Alonewolf87 2396 3/7/24

Edit:
As pointed out in the comments, my initial thought on this contract is wrong - because you also remove the hero when you lose the Riddle-game.

Original post:
I don't know what to make of this contract. It seems to me that this is the choice for a no-contract-fits-my-deck. There is no real downside to it. Even if the player doesn't discard any cards for the Riddle Game, you have a good advantage (at least in the early, decisive turns) due to the relatively strong attachments with the Guarded keyword.

3/5/24

Flrbb 170

Well it's having three stronger rounds in the early game worth permanently losing an hero afterwards? That's the main balancing of this contract. Say you get Stone of Elostirion, you get over 3 rounds +6 WP and 3 cards. Is that worth an hero? — Alonewolf87 2396 3/5/24

You don't necessarily lose the hero. Just win the game! — kjeld 664 3/5/24

Well not all quests allow you to win in 3 to 5 rounds. — Alonewolf87 2396 3/5/24

I meant win the Riddle-game -- not terribly difficult to do with some planning, mostly a good supply of 0-cost cards. — kjeld 664 3/5/24

Ohhh. I did not read carefully. I thought that if you don't riddle/lose you have to discard attachment, contract and Hungry Creature. I overlooked that you have to discard the hero, too. :/ — Flrbb 170 3/5/24

Stupid Question: What is the Hungry Creature? I really don't understand this contract. — NERD 866 3/5/24

Here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_8LIYSfTt2S9YLmnvzHH20T6Kxt-XETM/view?usp=sharing — kjeld 664 3/5/24

Note also that hero is not "discarded", it's "removed from the game" so you have no way to bring it back later with things like Fortune or Fate or The Houses of Healing (nor does ally Prince Imrahil becomes an hero) — Alonewolf87 2396 3/6/24

if i understand the posts of kaspatou right, it was not big of a problem and that would fit with my thoughts. and i see no reason to buff all decks that have no contract e.g. gandalf-elrond-vilya (and gandalf have even less problems achieving the cards needed for the riddles) i would further say, at about 50% of my decks i could add it without further adjustment (i mostly play with some cost 0 cards and carddraw)) to buff most decks in this simple way is not what i call interesting deckbuilding. — doomguard 2156 3/6/24

I play tested this contract extensively during its design. I promise you deck building for this is not a simple as having some 0 cost cards and throw in some card draw. The optimal cost curve of your deck is dependent on the quest you are playing. The time I lost the Riddle-Game it was due to two 4 threat cards showing up as shadow cards. I find playing with this contract very enjoyable, not only because it allows you immediate access to a guarded attachment but because of the interesting deckbuilding/game play puzzle it provides. I suggest you try it out for yourself before dismissing it due to your initial reaction or someone else's post. — kypatzer 91 3/7/24